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tv   [untitled]  CSPAN  June 14, 2009 7:00pm-7:30pm EDT

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wouldn't be living alone, he went to live with the zeltner family who was a swiss diplomat who lived in paris. and he married a very pretty french woman and by all rumors at the time were that one of the daughters actually that mr. zeltner was actually kosciuszko's daughter. and this is a rumor that i present in the book as rumor and just simply provide the evidence that existed at the time but i'm convinced that this was actually his daughter because he leaves money to her so i'm convinced that kosciuszko had two children out-of-wedlock. he tried to get married twice and both times the father said you don't have enough money to marry my daughter. so there's the rumor that he had the child with mrs. zeltner but there's also a rumor that he had
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a child with the wife of one of his officers in poland. and recently, a friend of mine was here in washington and he met with a french politician by the name of natalie kosciuszko morrisette, how do you have this name? and she said, well, we were supposedly descendents of kosciuszko's brother. ..
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>> why do i think? because kosciuszko was very good friends with jefferson. and one of the letters that i've found jefferson writes to kosciuszko saying we are both older now and we don't have many
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years left ahead of us. in fact, i have this plot of land, this plot where i'm going to be buried. and come to virginia and live, you know, on my estate, live at monticello and you can be buried right next to me. but i think the reason kosciuszko did not return it because he had these high hopes that either napoleon or somebody would attack russia and freed the polls from the russians and the prussians and the austrians who had all taken them. and kosciuszko was also given 500 acres in ohio as a result of his being a general in the american revolution. so he had his own land. he could have come and live in ohio on that land as well. the reason i think he didn't return it because he always held out hope that he would be able to free the presence of bold. that was his obsession. not only did he want to freed american slaves but he wanted to into feudalism, frieda serves and freed dozens of europe.
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>> how much would that be in current dollars and what happened with the acres in ohio? [laughter] >> does anybody have a calculi are on them? [laughter] >> i don't know how much that would be but i think it would be more than a bucketful of money and the land in ohio, kosciuszko tried to lease it. he asked jefferson, he said fines and farmer who's interested in leasing my land, figure out what the going rate is and then give it to him for 1% less than that. some french farmer went and tried to farm it for a while but didn't have success. and as for the money, that he had in the american -- that he earned in the american revolution, unfortunately, kosciuszko when he died at four different estates he had his american estate, which left with
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jefferson that he wanted him to use to buy an free slaves. but he also had an estate in poland which he left with his sister, and his sister's children and said i want you to take that land, you can have that land under the condition that you freed serfs and that they are no longer slaves in poland. and in the money that kosciuszko was given by the czar in london, he never touched that money because he felt that was bloodmoney. in the end, he wrote a will giving some of it to a friend and some of it to one of his eldest daughter's. and that he also had money in pairs and in switzerland, and he said that money save and use and get to peasants in switzerland who are going to carry great comic carry me to my grave. >> was he given last rites by
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the catholic church in poland considering his differences with the church quek and poland being so catholic. >> he was given last rites. in the end he was 71, and he was riding a horse and he fell off a horse and was injured. they brought him back to the room where he was staying. and he was given last rites before he died. he ended up dying of a stroke. and catholics do regard him as a hero. and there are a lot of people in poland as well to understand that the church owned serfs and this was unconscionable. >> but he was buried by the catholic church? >> yes, and in fact he had his heart taken out along with his
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entrails and buried in switzerland with the instructions that when poland was once again free, it be sent to poland to meet up with the rest of his body. and it wasn't until after world war i that his heart was actually sent back to poland and buried together with the rest of his remains. >> that's it. thank you very much. [applause] >> july 4 weekend on book tv, discover an unfamiliar sight of our nation's first president.
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>> jurgen todenhofer interviewed resistant fighters in iraq to find out what drives them. mcnally jackson books in new york city hosted this event. it last about an hour. >> it seems to me that there are many very important things which i have to say in this book, one of the most important and something that i would like you to talk to the audience about is your discovery about what the iraqi resistance is because we who get most of our news from the american media have a very importanimmortal's conception at american troops are fighting. we can do think a terrorist
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blowing themselves up, helter-skelter. why don't you tell us, said a straight and explain exactly what the movement is that you examined. >> thank you very much, mike. you have in iraq, it's difficult to say figures, but i try to have perhaps national resistance freedom fighters. and you have perhaps between 8002000 al qaeda. so what's the difference for me between a freedom fighter and a resistance fighter and an al qaeda terrorist. a real resistance and freedom fighter doesn't kill civilians. and al qaeda kills servility in spirit to the al qaeda thought people are terrorists. but these people who just defend their country, who want to be free, they are for me freedom fighters, resistant fighters. and i'm trying to tell the story of the young resistance fighter,
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freedom fighter. he is 22 years old. he is a student who doesn't want to make war and the war abroad, and the war happens, and then he says to his two brothers i don't want to fight your i want to make my exams. i want to be a student and later i want to be teacher, professor. and he doesn't participate in the fighting. and then after three years in 2006, his brother is coming home and in the morning he is shot down by an american sniper. and he said together with his younger brother and they are as every human being there, extremely sad. and they say we don't want to participate in this war. we will continue our study.
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and he takes his little brother. they make everything together whatever they can. and six months after the death of his other brother, it's in january, the house is attacked by american bombardment. and the family, the whole family runs away and suddenly they ran to an uncle some hundred yards away. and suddenly they realized that they forgot to turn off the heater. and fuel in this fuel rich country is very, very expensive. and so the youngest brother says i will go back. the young guy i'm telling his story, he says take care. and he runs away, and after 30 meters in front of the house is shot down by the americans.
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and the whole family wants to go outside and bring him home because they see that he is bleeding, he is wounded. but they are shooting and they cannot go out. and the young student he hammers against the wall. he wants to state his brother but he cannot. and he sees the whole family, sees the whole night, how their little brother is dying. and this night, at the end of this night, when he takes his little brother into his arms in the morning and brings them to a car, he decides to come a fighter. and he's fighting and he is fighting not against civilians. he is fighting against american troops against the cause, it just takes. he becomes freedom fighter and he is not happy about that. when he told me the story, this
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was very difficult for him. the discussion was interrupted again and again, and he stopped and said i don't want to daughter gets my story, it's not your story. and sometimes he hammers the floor with his fist, and he did everything not to cry. and i did everything not to cry either. and that's the untold story of this resistant. and as i said, you have a hundred thousand of these fighters and 2000 al qaeda. and whenever there is an attack against the military base in iraq, the pentagon said this was al qaeda. because they need al qaeda to justify their war your country and. but usually it's not al qaeda. when you have a real attack against attacks, these are the resistance fighters. and that's the story i wanted to tell. there's the other story, you
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know, you know a lot about this war. but you read it in your newspaper. you see it on tv, but these are to tell you the story. they walk around with american press and they show them what they want to show them. and i was not embedded in iowa just to speak to normal iraq use. and they told me their life. i lived within one week just to see what it means for the iraq use to be liberated by western countries. and i can tell you, they don't want to be liberated by us. they just want to be free. they just want to be free. and i was in baghdad began two weeks ago. i was in ramani the same town where i wrote the story inside falluja. i asked even militia who get
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money from the americans. i said what you think about the american occupation. tell them to leave. we want to be free. and you understand what i mean. can you imagine iraq he takes in your streets here in new york, what would you do if there were iraq he takes? and the story of the iraq he population and of the iraq he resistance is so sad that when i was writing this book, i was crying like a child because these stories are so incredibly sad. and i was fighting. this book is translated in many languages. i was so happy that it's now translated into english because i wanted to send it to some american politicians. because i say those who started this war, they just don't know
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what a war is. they never go to the front line themselves. for example, i like obama. i like this man, but then i read that today or yesterday, he goes to a play, he goes to a military base. but this is not iraq. what i would suggest, and that's a really concrete suggestion i would suggest that all politicians, germans, americans who vote for war should be sent at least one month to the frontlines so that they know what they do, so they look into the eyes of the soldiers who die and of the civilians they kill. and have you ever heard that rumsfeld or bush or cheney or someone else from the new
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administration went to the front line, sat together with them, asking the family or the iraq he family. that is something that never happened. >> i'm going to hasten now to make clear to the audience, here in the audience watching this broadcast, that you may think this man is anti-american or he is anti-semitic or something like that. it's very important to understand the scope of his career as someone who is really opposed adventures like these, regardless of who bounce them. 29 years ago he was in afghanistan helping the freedom fighters there against the soviet occupiers. >> financed by the americans. >> financed by the americans, and i was perfectly okay. but his activity was so
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intrusive and annoying to the soviets that they actually want to kill him. >> this is right. the spokesman of russia, officially if we get him we will flog him and we will kill him. this was big trouble between the german government and the russian government because he said this on the 10th anniversary of the russian german, so it was a little bit difficult. he announced to kill a german member of parliament. >> well, you made him mad. >> he exploded. >> but you have been all over the middle east. been in israel several times and indeed, i want to know note, that the royalty that he receives from this book will be divided equally between a medical fund to help wounded and disabled iraqi children and iraqi palestinian reconciliation projects. >> and jerusalem.
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>> i'm sorry, israeli palestinian. thank you for the correction. and so what we have here, if i may say so, i'm a principled man who speaks against this war as he has spoken against other wars, you know. >> i'm just a human being, and once i entered the country a year ago, you have to say what you do, your job. and i'm not an entrepreneur as they suffer so we are selling software things, internet thinks. so i had to write what i am and i wrote because i was a little bit confused. i couldn't say human being. and they didn't allow me to enter. they said there is no such thing.
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[laughter] >> and a lot of people would say that your book is a little bit belated because, after all, the war is practically over. what would you say about that? >> no. this is a good propaganda. i wouldn't say lies, propaganda tactics is a comma because it is something completely different. the american army did something very intelligent at the end. they gave money to the tribes in iraq and the strides, there's no electricity, no medical care, nothing, nothing is working. and they gave them hundreds of millions. and this created problems for the resistance fighters who are members of the same tribes or so they are fighting hesitantly or
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now, is one reason. they gave money. that's good strategy always. nevertheless, you have no back to 14 days ago you have every day between 10 and 15 military actions, roadside bombs, roadside attack since the on. so it's not very, very calm. this is one reason. money. and the other reason is that petraeus was so intelligent i must make this kopelman to somebody. he is not my friend. he withdraw the troops to their bases so that americans don't make the road anymore and for that reason there are less americans killed. that's great. i don't want americans to be killed. but that's the reason why they can say now it's a little bit colmer. you know, i have two
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suggestions. for the war in iraq and for the war in afghanistan. i would always say give money, give money to the afghans so that they fight for the afghan national army and not that they don't work with the taliban because of the taliban gets much more money than afghan fighter. the main proposal, my main proposal get these, the american troops on. bring them all. it's good for the american soldiers and it's good for the people in afghanistan. nobody in the world wants american troops as occupiers. >> write. >> so that's the point. the surge didn't work. do you know what search meant, is that the americans would fight together in front with you iraq is. that's exactly what they don't do anymore in iraq. they are in their bases.
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but back to, if you want to go from one neighborhood to another it's extremely dangerous. you really risk your life when you go to sadr city, even the prime minister, he went once to this thick part and he doesn't dare to go there again. so there's no security in this country, there is no potable water. there is no medical care. nothing works and there is something very sad. i was in iraq this whole war and at the time of saddam, i never wanted to see this man. i didn't need a member of his government. everybody in iraq says understood on it was better. the only advantage now is you can vote freely in this country. but you cannot move freely
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anymore. so people say i need food for my children. i need medical care for my children. i need potable water, electricity. when i was in ramani, we couldn't sleep and after i was there in august. we slept outside in the garden. there's no way to sleep and/or, in the house because it's too warm. it's incredible, hot in this country. and, of course, why do i write such a book? i was like chairman of the big comfy. we had 7000 people are and i had other things to do than write books and go to afghanistan or to iraq. i wrote this book because i hope, i think that if the politicians read this book, or the children of politicians, read this book that they say we
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should stop these wars. i want to change something. everybody is talking about change. obama, change, yeah. let's change. and i say if a member of obama administration reads this book, he cannot say i will send another 17000 troops to afghanistan to fight more. because, you see, moore is just a word for many people. but if you go to such a country, if you realize what war is, when i went to baghdad two weeks ago i wanted to see a little iraqi girl. she lived in the poorest neighborhoods of sadr city in baghdad. she was 13 and on the seventh of april, her house was bombarded and she lost her little sister
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and she lost one leg. she's a beautiful girl. i brought her back to munich. she got a new prosthesis, a good prosthesis, the best one. and then she got another prosthesis just six months ago, and i wanted to see her because i bought them, her family at little house. a very poorhouse. and i saw this girl. she is now 19. and i thought i would see wonderful, splendid, wonderful iraqi girl. 19 years old. i found a girl who looked like 10. she was something into herself, helpless, a girl who knows that she has no perspective. and that is what war is all
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about. and therefore i have read this book just to tell the story of the people who suffer from these crazy wars. and therefore you can help me. you can really help me. not bye-bye, i don't get any, not a penny for this book. not only buy one book, but buying two books, one for you and one for your comment if you have a republican friend. [laughter] >> give him this book. yeah, you can change everybody. nobody is born republican. [laughter] >> let's broaden the discussion, as you do, in the book. the book as a very powerful afterward. jurgen is a devout christian. he was moved i think by this
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experience and others in the middle east, and by his experience, the impact of these wars in the middle east to try to undertake a comparative study of the religions, he reddick arak, the old testament and new testament. the afterward puts this whole thing into perspective and a very sobering way. it talks about these wars and the context of the west long assault on muslims. to see it all laid out that way with the histories of french occupations and various countries, the british, and the atrocious, horrific genocidal treatment of these people who are routinely cast in our media
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as a predatory and as the aggressors and as of the terrorists. it's an extremely sobering and disorienting experience to read what you have to say. i would like you to talk a little bit about human. >> i just found out, we all think that muslims are fanatics, violent. i just found out that during the last 200 years, no muslim state has ever attacked a western country. the west, and also, have always been the aggressor. the west was never under attack, under attack from the muslim side. we have killed millions during the time of colonization. and for me, a man like bin laden is not a freedom fighter, not a martyr. he is a murderer. he

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